Dreaming Methods’ Andy Campbell – “She is living through the catastrophic consequences of previous generations’ mistakes”

Andy Campbell is the Founder and Co-director of Dreaming Methods, a UK based studio creating digital art, games, and VR experiences. Finn Houston sat down with him to talk about collaboration, AI, and video gaming’s place in the art world.

Finn Houston: Hi Andy, great to have you with us. How are you doing today?

Andy Campbell: Very well, thank you. Just recently back from the Develop: Brighton conference where  Judi was talking on a panel about narrative design in VR and games. Nice to get some sea air, but now back to work.

Finn: So what’s the story behind Dreaming Methods? How did the studio come about?

Andy: It started out on the Commodore Amiga in the mid-1990s as ‘Black Dragon Design’, publishing shareware games, mainly dungeon crawlers. We also released a series of digital short story collections featuring original work by myself and other young writers. These stories eventually started to bleed across into our games in the form of ‘backstories’.

As we shifted across to PC and with the emerging internet becoming available, we began to explore more experimental territory—digital poems and interactive narratives, all of which are featured and accessible on our site. At this time, we were creating a lot of art and digital fiction in Flash. The Dreaming Methods website has been live since 1999 which was around the time Co-Director Judi Alston and I met.

Dreaming Methods was originally the ‘experimental branch’ of One to One Development Trust, an arts organisation founded by Judi with myself as the Digital Director where we use film, game design, XR and other creative approaches to work with communities and run projects to inform positive societal change. In 2021 we decided to restructure Dreaming Methods and set it up as a standalone digital storytelling studio, focusing on immersive fictional stories and games—often told through VR, and with a strong literary angle that goes right back to Dreaming Method’s original roots.

Finn: Much of Dreaming Method’s work integrates literature and fine arts into a digital environment. With an obvious interest in more traditional arts, what made you choose to focus on digital art and games over other mediums?

Andy: We’re fascinated by the unique opportunities that arise when art, games (or perhaps more specifically interactivity) and literature converge. We also love film—Judi is a documentary film-maker—so that’s very much part of the mix. Right now, for us, that’s often within the XR (Extended Reality) space, which cuts across many different industries and disciplines, and is rapidly evolving. We’re storytellers at heart and have a fascination for exploring the different ways in which we can tell stories, introducing elements of player-agency and high levels of immersion. The results, at best, can be profoundly moving for audiences.

Finn: Recently you collaborated with poet Toria Garbutt on The Abandoned Library. Can you tell us a little bit about that project?

Andy: The Abandoned Library is a VR experience that explores issues around the environment, displacement and Artificial Intelligence. It’s set in a not-too-distant future that’s been devastated by climate change and follows the journey of CJ, a young poet working as part of an environmental clean-up operation on the flooded East Coast of Northern England.

Having worked with Toria Garbutt previously on other projects we invited her to write a short poem and be the voice of CJ as she internally reflects about the landscape around her. As a self-confessed technophobe we were interested in bringing Toria into her first XR project.

This project was also about offering young people new to XR opportunities to develop their work further. We worked with Tiara Ashworth, a young 3D artist, who modelled CJ’s character through motion capture, and Gesang Kangsa on the soundtrack CJ is listening to on her headphones. We also worked with music by Barry Snaith to form the soundscape.

We developed the project in six months with funding and support from XR Stories and wrote the core narrative that runs throughout—including a dramatic and quite moving exchange between CJ and an AI entity she discovers in the library. We also created techniques to embed fragments of text within the landscape, so that it felt like a natural, integrated part of the environment.

Finn: While The Abandoned Library is now available for download, you originally exhibited the experience in art galleries. Can you explain a little bit about that?

Andy: We held a three-week exhibition at The Art House in Wakefield mid-way through production. The exhibition featured digital projection, archive film, an interactive touch screen, a VR prototype and large-scale printed artwork from the story world, offering windows into the project for a different audience; one that might not have normally shown an interest in VR or ‘video games’. We had over 1,600 visitors attend the exhibition which we were delighted about. It gave us the opportunity to explore our VR work for interpretation in gallery settings, which was extremely rewarding.

The work has been shown at many events including film festivals and The British Library. It also won the Game Republic award last year for ‘Most Innovative Use of Technology” which was fantastic for the team. Audience reactions are extremely positive. We are using the piece now as a prototype to develop the story into a full-blown narrative game.

Finn: You mention exploring VR in a gallery setting. Do you see this as a rising trend in the arts? Are there any other artists you know of (especially in the North) who are focusing on exploring virtual reality experiences in gallery settings?

Andy: VR in gallery settings is increasing despite there being a lot to work out, eg. hardware, staffing, limited amounts of access for audiences, etc. As VR tech becomes more portable/easier to use and its potential to create immersive experiences that more traditional media cannot match becomes more widely recognised, I’m sure we will see more VR in galleries – particularly ‘room scale’ VR where users/participants have the ability to move around freely, since galleries often have the physical space to cater for that. This can result in audiences forging deep connections with the artwork.

One particular project I am interested in seeing/following at the moment is In Pursuit of Repetitive Beats directed by Darren Emerson, an interactive VR adventure that transports audiences back to the West Midlands in 1989, during the early days of the Acid House movement. This is currently running at Birmingham Museum and City Art Gallery before touring other cities.

Keep an eye on our progress too, we can’t say much right now but have a couple of new VR works touring and being exhibited in the autumn and winter.

Finn: So, The Abandoned Library tackles a number of themes—among them identity, displacement, and environmental disaster—how did a virtual reality experience allow you to approach those themes in a unique way?

Andy: Using VR we were able to bring the environment and the unstable weather conditions that feature in the work to extraordinary life—placing players right in the heart of a devastated landscape and oncoming storm. Dr Guddi Singh, who plays the role of the AI character in the story, described it as “the effects of climate change made real.”

We also decided to experiment with a third-person perspective, where CJ ‘guides you’ through the landscape. You remain behind her as she walks across the terrain and enters the library, observing her actions and listening to her reflective spoken word. This creative decision really worked with audiences increasing empathy for CJ and her quest to find answers about her own displacement and why her generation was dealing with this climate crisis. Although this removes the common first-person perspective found in a lot of VR work, audiences commented on how compelling it was being able to actually see the protagonist. The world CJ inhabits leaves her feeling angry and displaced. Her poetry reflects that. She is living through the catastrophic consequences of previous generations’ mistakes.

Finn: Beyond climate change, the game also touches on AI, which is a controversial topic right now. What are your thoughts on AI and its future as it relates to art?

Andy: The Abandoned Library features a malfunctioned AI—‘The Librarian’—that was originally designed to be an ‘assistant,’ helping suggest new books to library-going readers based on their interests. We play on this a lot in the work. The AI has a strapline: “Can I help you find a new story?’’ which echoes CJ’s quest for the truth and connection.

We didn’t use AI at all to create The Librarian; we scripted her role and wanted to play on the idea of what is real and what is digitally created, exploring where audiences feel empathy—juxtaposing The Librarian played by Dr Guddi Singh and CJ as a fully digital character.

The biggest use we have for AI right now as artists is using it as a programming tool. It’s able to generate base scripts for specific tasks faster than we can even type. The results are never 100% perfect, but they’re a timesaving launchpad. Coding can sometimes feel like the least enjoyable/most frustrating part of creating immersive experiences; AI can help take the edge off.

We don’t really use AI for visuals yet beyond Photoshop’s generative fill/expand tools and Topaz Labs’ various upscaling models, which again are highly useful. Our position on AI is that we don’t want it to start breaking into our core creative process; we are also keen to keep supporting and involving other creatives working in illustration, music, design etc where we can.

Denying AI is shortsighted, we need to learn to use it as a tool to assist work flow in a faster more effective way—but not let it take the heart and soul out of the creative process.

Finn: A lot of Dreaming Methods’ work is explicitly situated in and around the North of England—both in content and creation. What do you think of the current state of the North’s art and culture scene? Which artists and projects are worth keeping an eye on right now?

Andy: As a young boy, I used to tell stories and create imaginary worlds, often drawing on the industrial landscape of West Yorkshire’s textile mills where I grew up. As the lead environment artist/developer across all our work, the ‘Industrial North’ permeates into a lot of what we create.

Judi moved up to Wakefield from the South just at the end of the Miners’ Strike in 1985 to go to Bretton Hall College. This move was a massive cultural shift and had a huge impact on Judi’s life and work. She began documenting changes in the mining communities around Wakefield. Although her filmmaking has taken her to many different places, Wakefield and the North continue to inspire.

In answer to this question, we want to wave the flag for Wakefield district and its Year of Culture. What a creative hot spot it is. Of course, it’s home to some highly regarded international attractions, but it is also home to the virtual production studios at Production Park. We’re based at The Art House, a fantastic gallery and studio space that punches way above its weight and delivers an amazing programme of work and opportunities.

There are also newer entities like Tileyard North, a great facility which offers audio/music studios and great space to hang out. We are very excited about the development of the former market hall into a new cultural space called WX with a strong focus on digital work, that will be launching later in the year.

On a more grassroots level, there’s DIY culture like the bi-monthly Art Walk run by local volunteers, and the recently opened Our House—a dedicated LGBTQ+ creative space.

Also, born of The Abandoned Library—when two of our team met at the project launch—is the current musical collaboration between sound artist Barry Snaith and Toria Garbutt—‘Toria and The Inconsistents’—a fusion of poetry and post-punk from two Wakefield artists and a great example of how relationships build in the arts.

Wakefield has a lot going on for creatives—it’s a great place to nurture new creative ideas.

Finn: You mentioned earlier that The Abandoned Library was partially about offering young people the chance to develop their skills, and since then you’ve mentioned a lot of arts collectives and studio spaces. Before we wrap up, what advice do you have for young digital artists and indie developers looking to get involved in bigger projects and take their first steps into the North’s creative industries?

Andy: For young digital artists and indie developers aiming to break into the North’s creative industries, my advice is to build a strong portfolio showcasing your unique skills and creativity, actively network with industry professionals through events and online platforms and consider collaborative projects to gain experience and visibility. Participating in local exhibitions, tech meetups, and hackathons can open doors to valuable connections and opportunities. Staying updated with industry trends and continuously honing your technical and creative skills will help you stand out in what is now a very competitive field.

Also, as a developer myself, my advice would be learn about as many aspects of digital creation as you can. Making VR, games, digital experiences, etc, involves numerous interconnected elements and disciplines. It’s fine to have a core specialism, but also build up a good foundation of generalist knowledge too.